A Candid Conversation With Beef The Chief
The Don Van Vliet Interview...


Vancouver, September, 1971
By Rick McGrath
With help from a radio news interviewer and various fans

This interview begins with the original published introduction...

It was easier to get to talk with Captain Beefheart (Don Van Vliet) than I first imagined. I arrived at The Coliseum around eight-thirty, talked my way past the ever-vigilant PNE guards and there he was, standing outside his dressing room, wearing a natty little suit, holding a clarinet case, showing off his finely manicured goatee, all under his stylish fedora. With his wife.

Luckily, I got to him a few minutes before the crowd, and he consented to give the Straight an interview. I suggested we go somewhere to sit, but he said he had been sitting a lot, and that he liked to be standing. This was fine with me, but it resulted in a few problems later when some over-zealous and quite drunk fans started yelling about Frank Zappa (a touchy subject with The Captain) and generally making assholes of themselves. Some of this transcript suffers from Beefheart's voice being drowned out here and there.

My personal feelings about the man and meeting him are pretty clear in my mind. Captain Beefheart is an extraordinarily perceptive, gentle person with a soft, smooth voice, a quick mind, and a compulsion to act seriously when he's really holding back great laughs and great lines. He kept on telling me well-thought-out ideas with a straight face, and then when I stopped to understand what he was saying, he'd smile and say, "I'm only kidding". And I think a lot of his conceptions about music, poetry, and ther arts are valid. I found him to be a bit unrealistic in his outlook on life, and his own philosophy of living would be difficult to follow unless you were in his own shoes. At the least he is unique...

	Don and his charming wife, Janet

McGrath: Tell me about your new album

Beefheart: The name of it is Lick My Decals Off...

Beefheart's Wife: No, it isn't...

Beefheart: Well, which one do you mean?

McGrath: The one you just mentioned...

Beefheart: Oh, the new one? It's called The Spotlight Kid.

McGrath:: No more decals?

Beefheart: You say "deck-alls" up here.

McGrath: And you say "dee-calls" down there...it's a bit different.

Beefheart: It slows it down a bit, but that doesn't matter. The words slow it down more than that.

McGrath: Is there any point in asking for a musical description of the new album? Is that possible, anyway?

Beefheart: No, I don't think there is any way to describe it. It's a little more accessible, I think. A lot more accessible.

Unknown Fan: Maybe you could ask him when he's going to work with Zappa again.

Beefheart: I'm not. No, I shouldn't have even worked with him when I did. Because I can't work. He works, I play. There's a difference. Are you talking about Willie The Pimp?

Fan: Yeah. Is that the only thing you've done with him?

Beefheart: Yeah.

McGrath: You didn't like it?

Beefheart: I didn't mind doing it it, but he turned my voice down so far it was almost corny. I really sang that thing. And it turned it way down. He didn't tell me it was going to be turned down like that, and when he put it on I thought it was humourous. He should have gotten Johnny Rivers.

Fan: Well, that's how he is, I guess.

Beefheart: How is he?

Fan: Pretty weird.

McGrath: Frank's not weird, he knows what he's doing.

Beefheart: Well, I think people who know what they're doing to that degree aren't doing very much.

McGrath: Yeah, I think I know what you mean.

Beefheart: That's what I mean.

McGrath: Could you tell me a bit more about this "play" concept you have of music.

Beefheart: Music is play. For instance, a child playing in a yard, right? A child playing in a yard doesn't like to be called by his mother. I imagine the child wouldn't even quit playing if it weren't for someone disturbing him. So that's what I mean.

Radio News Interviewer: Is this your first trip to Canada?

Beefheart: Yeah, it's beautiful.

Radio News Interviewer: Did you fly up?

Beefheart: Yeah, it's beautiful.

Radio News Interviewer: Thanks.

Fan: Have you been to the east at all?

Beefheart: No, but I'd like to go.

One Fan To Another: This guy said Zappa was a jerk for letting him do it to him...

Beefheart: If God's doing the Jerk, is it the Jerk's fault for letting him do it to him?

McGrath: Pretty funky. You should hire these guys to come out and warm up the audience for you...

Beefheart: They are the audience.

Radio News Interviewer: Is there any chance you and Frank will kiss and make up?

Beefheart: No.

Radio News Interviewer: There isn't, eh?

McGrath: Well, you guys aren't at odds with each other, are you?

Beefheart: No no no no no.

McGrath: You went to school together, didn't you?

Beefheart: No, I never went to school. But it's not that I'm at odds with Frank. It's just that I don't wish to be around him. I'm interested in playing, not working.

McGrath: You're still on Straight Records, aren't you?

Beefheart: No, I'm not. Reprise Records.

McGrath: Do you still play at sculpting?

Beefheart: Oh yeah. Painting, writing -- and I've got a movie that's coming out soon.

Fan: Did you ever have the impression that you got known by being on Zappa's album?

Beefheart: I don't think so.

Fan: That's how I knew you.

Beefheart: Is that how you know me? Well, then I don't think you know who I am if you consider me in the same category as Frank Zappa.

Fan: That's not what I was saying.

(At this point the two fans are spotted by two of their friends. A yelling contest ensues)

Beefheart: I don't want to talk about Frank Zappa. Let Frank Zappa speak for Frank Zappa, and I'll speak for Captain Beefheart.

Radio News Interviewer: Tell me, are the guys in your group right now the ones who started with you, or are they changing all the time?

Beefheart: No, I don't change all the time. The dtummer is the one that started out with me. The other fellows have been with me about three years. The way the group is now has been happening for about two years.

Fan: Have you got a cigarette?

Beefheart: Do you want a cigarette? (gives him one).

McGrath: Is your cousin still playing with the band?

Beefheart: No, he's still in the red wings, fixing his eyes.

McGrath: I hope this tapes.

Radio News Interviewer: Have you got any questions to ask?

Beefheart: (pauses) Uh, yeah...are you doing a good job of not having any smog here?

Fan: Is the war in Viet Nam a vertical conundrum?

Radio News Interviewer: Yeah, I think we're keeping it down. We have a bit of smog, but it's getting better. (people start yelling)

McGrath: Can we talk about your earlier albums? The first was Captain Beefheart and The Magic Band. And then the next one we hear about is the Blue Thumb one. And there's a whole bunch that have been released in between. Why have these come out just recently?

Beefheart: Mirror Man was released eight months ago, and I didn't even know it was coming out.

McGrath: Where was that recorded?

Beefheart: That was recorded in a studio when I was with Kama Sutra.

McGrath: How many albums did you cut with them?

Beefheart: There's more.

McGrath: There's still more they haven't released?

Beefheart: Yeah.

McGrath: Are they releasing them with your name all over them?

Beefheart: Well, they didn't give me any money. And they never have.

McGrath: Is there any chance of you starting up uour own operation?

Beefheart: Sure.

Radio News Interviewer: Have you ever met Wild Man Fisher?

Beefheart: No, but I've seen him.

Radio News Interviewer: Is he really insane?

Beefheart: I believe in varying degrees of disconnection. I don't believe in insanity.

Radio News Interviewer: Do you believe he's disconnected?

Beefheart: No. He got away from Frank Zappa and Herbie Cohen, so I guess he isn't that disconnected.

Radio News Interviewer: When are you going to discover Frank Zappa?

Beefheart: Discover him?

Radio News Interviewer: Yeah. Debut him on one of your albums.


Beefheart: I don't even think about him, really. Most people say something about him.

McGrath: You've said you don't believe in drugs. Is there any reason for that?

Beefheart: I think people should give themselves more credit. I think they have everything themselves. I don't think anything needs to be induced. Do you know what I mean?

McGrath: Yeah.

Beefheart: I think they just get disconnected.

McGrath: Can you offer any suggestions why so many people do drugs?

Beefheart: Because they want to, I guess. What I'm saying is that I just don't take them. Nobody in the group takes them.

Radio News Interviewer: This is the first time you've been to Canada?

Beefheart: Yeah.

Radio News Interviewer: Is there a tour starting? Are you going around to other places?

Beefheart: Yeah. We were on a tour of the States about six months ago.

Radio News Interviewer: Are you going anywhere after here?

Beefheart: This is my wife, Janet.

Janet: Hi.

Beefheart: It's getting a bit claustrophobic. (We are surrounded by people)

Radio News Interviewer: What's it like being the wife of a pop star?

Janet: It's nice.

Radio News Interviewer: It is, eh?

Beefheart:: I'm not a rock star. I'm a soft person. I'm not a rock.

McGrath: That's interesting... a soft star.

Beefheart: What?

McGrath: Soft star.

Radio News Interviewer: How come you haven't been here before?

Beefheart: Well, I never had enough money to make it up here. I never had enough money to get any equipment until recently. Believe it or not.

Radio News Interviewer: Do you dig it?

Beefheart: Do I dig it? Of course I do.

Fan: Where's Larry Fisher?

Beefheart: I don't know. Your guess is as good as mine. You see, Zappa tried to connect me to a group of people in order to hold me back.

Fan: Awww.

Second Fan: Did he fuck you?

Beefheart: Out of money? Most certainly.

Fans: Woo-woo.. (and assorted screams)

Third Fan: Yes. I talked to a guy who knew Don Ellis and he said the same thing.

Beefheart: Well, I sure didn't get any money. Ask Artie, he'll tell you. Artie!

Fan: Yeah, ther percussionist. He played with Zappa for a long time.

Radio News Interviewer: I'm not really interested in Zappa right now.

Beefheart: Yeah. But you should be interested in Ed Marimba.

Art Tripp: Yeass?

(While Art Tripp and I talk, the Radio news Interviewer and Captain Beefheart keep up an incessant rap about the smog conditions of Vancouver, LA and unrelated areas)

McGrath: As chief percussionist for the Magic Band, Mr Marimba, perhaps you could tell me something about your background. Where did you do your regular drumming before?

Tripp: I've never done regular drumming. No, I've never got too serious about playing the drums. I've never got too serious about anything.

Talking with Art Tripp

McGrath: What about the weird rhythm things you get into?

Tripp: I don't know -- it's just something everybody can understand. It's not meant to be anything one way or the other. You hear it all every time you hear a train.

McGrath: Could you tell me a bit about your experiences with Zappa?

Tripp: Horrible.

McGrath: In what way did he give you a bad time?

Tripp: He really didn't want anyone to play. I had a good time for about five or six months, and then I found out he was stealing all my ideas, and I didn't want any of the fucking credit. I just wanted to do them. And then he was extremely hard to talk to. I'd try to start a conversation with him, and he'd just give me a lot of jive, huckster shit. He stole about 80% of his stuff from Don.

(At this point the Radio News Interviewer and Beefheart are talking about cars. Radio news has a Willy Jeep and he's "dickering" for a 1914 something. Grease city)

McGrath: Your music is pretty heavy fgor some people.

Beefheart: I don't mean it to be...

McGrath: Obviously, you don't let it bother you, because you keep on playing it.

Beefheart: I'm not doing it for spite or anything -- I just think it's nice to hear something different. I think they need something different. Maybe if they hear me and think my music's far out and they find out we don't do drugs then they won't take drugs either.

McGrath: Then they can do it themselves?

Beefheart: Right. That's what I do. That's what all of us do. I would rather look at a rose than take drugs. When I want to look at a rose, I want to look at a rose.

McGrath: What do you think of the traditional performer/audience trip?

Beefheart: I'd like to get them together as one, but every time the audience tries to do that, the police get a chance to beat people. And I don't like that. So I think it should be kept to a stage, performer and audience. It's probably better that way because I don't like to see kids get hurt.

McGrath: What's happening in the states these days?

Beefheart: It's horrible, man. I just wrote a song that says, "Today's the day that everybody gets an oil well whether they like it or not".

Radio News Interviewer: Come the revolution, is that it?

Beefheart: Pardon me?

Radio News Interviewer: Come the revolution?

Beefheart (dazed): I don't know about the revolution. I don't think blood will cure oil. I think blood should be in a human body, and I think oil should be underground, and I think the rivers and oceans should be rivers and oceans. I have a painting that I did with a porpoise running into a watermelon at 800 miles an hour. And that was an apology statement.

Radio News Interviewer: A porpoise running into a watermelon?

Beefheart: Yeah, crashing into one.

Radio News Interviewer: Are you a rascist?

Beefheart: No, no...don't you understand? The thing had to jump out of the ocean because it was getting burned up.

McGrath: But doesn't it seem realistic to think that any kind of ecological action depends on the upheaval of the current system?

Beefheart: Well, I don't think another war will help. I think thast people should write in about it. That they should sit down and write everybody a letter. To see if that works, you see? There's no doubt about it, most people are sitting on their ass, smoking a joint. Why aren't they doing something about it? Aren't they intelligent? Don't they listen? I've been saying these things in my music for the past seven years and nobody's been listening. I'm not intimidated, though.

Radio News Interviewer: I think people are listening to your music.

Beefheart: Very few. Either that or the record companies aren't getting the music to the people. Which is probably what it is. I prefer to believe that.

McGrath: Could we talk a bit about your poetry. Is it spontaneous, natural verse, like your music, or do you work it out?

Beefheart:: I never plot. I leave that to the ad men who do the ads for Forest Lawn. I don't read the classics. I've never read a book.

McGrath: Never read a book?

Radio News Interviewer: I've read three in my life.

McGrath: The reason I asked is because I'm an English teaching assistant at Simon Fraser University...

Beefheart: I hope you're teaching the right language...

McGrath: Well, poetry is a language...

Beefheart: Poetry is but English isn't...

McGrath: Well, the wonderful thing about poetry is that you get to make up your own language each time you sit down to write. And then other people get to do what they want with the poem after you've finished it. It isn't English, because you've used those words in a totally unique way.

Beefheart: When English is used for pleasure I think that's fine, but when its used to tell people to make their eyes as small as the person who wrote the book, then I don't like it.

McGrath: Yeah, but I could also make people's eyes as big as the author's.

Beefheart: But that would be very bad, man, because you see it's not good to look through other people's eyes. I find a "c" very bad because it isn't total. At this point I'm going to tickle you.

McGrath: I'm just thinking about what you're saying.

Beefheart: Don't think about what I say. It's all right. It depends on who's writing the English. If they're nice peopole, that's good. If they're bad that's no good.

McGrath: It's a method of human communication.

Beefheart: You know what I'm trying to do with the English language, don't you. I bet you know that.

McGrath: I know what's happening. It doesn't matter what the words are, it matters what the sounds are in the words.

Beefheart: That's right, You have to feel it.

McGrath: Which is what poetry is about, because you can explain it in musical terms. That's why people can still go see Shakespeare and love it, even though a lot of the words are too complex or archaic.

Beefheart: I think they should go to new plays. I don't think they should go back to Shakespeare. He isn't here any more. I think we should start putting emphasis on the new people.

McGrath: A lot of the newer playwrights are pretty nihilistic, though.

Beefheart: Well, they should feel good. It's not that hard to feel good. They've been taught to feel bad. Too much emphasis is put on the "i" before "e" except after "c". There should be no exception. Like the "c" shouldn't be excepted. The "sea" should be accepted. Or excepted.

McGrath: Any other social issues you're interested in besides the ecological thing?

Beefheart: People and animals.

(Another fan arrives and implores Beefheart to autograph a cigarette paper)

Radio News Interviewer: You definitely put down drugs, then?

Beefheart: I don't put down drugs. I just don't use them. I think people have it in them and they don't need drugs. I think they are born totally.



This interview was found in the vaults by Harold Colson, an ace Librarian at the University of California at San Diego. Harold is researching the Stones 1972 North American tour, and he's found a bunch of my lost stuff in some special collections of underground newspapers. Thank you, Harold!